Can you teach a horse to drive w/o riding?

[Ariesgrl131]

My shire mare has never been ridden. Actually I sent her to a trainer and she tried to saddle break her but she freaks out when someone is on her back. So I started ground driving her to get her used to the ques but I am having a blast ground driving her. I asked the trainer if she could learn to drive and she said it would be dangerous to drive her if she cant even be saddle broke.Is that true? Is there a good book on teaching a horse to drive?

[WP~Paint]

I do not know much on this...but I will try:D My gelding is 7 but on a 5 year old level and I tried to ground drive him the other day. Even though he was confused, he did great. I don't think they would have to be broke, even though he is, it seems to me that it would be ok if they weren't. I had a blast trying to do it too. I'm hoping to get some stuff to do it better. I just used what I could find:D Good luck and I hope you can get her broke to drive someday! Have fun!!!

[WashingtonBay]

There are lots of drafts who are driven and never ridden.

But I wouldn't want to strap a cart to a horse with temper issues or freak-out issues.... I'd want to do it because she was steady at it. Be careful of your reasons, driving is NOT really safer and your control is much less.

[Ariesgrl131]

It seems like she has been driven before, but not on her own. I ground drove her everywhere, even in traffic. I feel like I have more control of her ground driving then I do on her back. I think I might look for another trainer and she what they say.... I hope I can drive her... :)

[WashingtonBay]

The Amish are the experts on driving and road safety, but perhaps you don't have a whole lot of them in Las Vegas. :)

[zoel_222]

There are lots of drafts who are driven and never ridden.

But I wouldn't want to strap a cart to a horse with temper issues or freak-out issues.... I'd want to do it because she was steady at it. Be careful of your reasons, driving is NOT really safer and your control is much less.


I agree. There are lots of horses who only do driving, but I don't think it's safe to put a cart on a horse who takes off bucking.... That sounds like a fatal accident waiting to happen for both the horse and the person in the cart.

[WP~Paint]

Ok, I have a question...I am not meaning to steal this thread also...But I was talking to my dad and he didn't seem to like the idea of me teaching my horse to drive...he seems to think that it will not help him much...He is broke to ride, so will this help him any. I figure the more he knows the better all around horse he will be...Once again sorry if it seems like I stole this thread.

[WashingtonBay]

WP, ground driving or long lining is just more exposure to new things for a horse like yours. The more you teach him, the more you both learn about how the other thinks. That never hurts.

[WP~Paint]

Good! i figured it would be good for him!

[Cat]

Do you know what is causing the bucking issue?

Many horses are trained to drive before riding. That is pretty standard in the haflinger breed to get them driving training before riding. I opted not too on Toby, but I had some pressure to do it that way because saddle breaking is then a lot easier. However - if you don't know how to train to drive, get help from someone who does.

BTW - there are some horses that do very well under saddle who freak driving, and some who are never good mounts under saddle who are excellent in hitch. Just because they are throwing a fit under saddle, does not mean they will in hitch. Different concepts. However, still get someone who knows what they are doing and has a lot of experience. Especially if they have a "been there done that" horse that is at least as big as yours that they can be started out double with. The trained horse tends to help steady the newbie.

[All4Grace]

Find yourself a good driving trainer and you should be fine. I know many driving horses that make not so great riding horses *cough* Grace*Cough* :)

I respectfully disagree, WB, with your opinion that driving you have less control. I know many many people that drive only after years of riding that feel that have an equal amount of control. It's a different feel but you still have control.
I am, myself just learning how to drive Gracie. Although she hasn't been hitched up to a cart since she was on the track (we're rebuilding one to fit her) she is fantastic being ground driven. She loves it more then being ridden. Some horses just prefer it.

Another reason Duchess may be "unridable" to your trainer is sometime certain trainers just can't get through to certain horses. Mares especially! I knew a woman that was "training" a belgain mare to ride, this mare and her hated each other, after a month the woman sent her back to the owners saying she was useless as a riding horse. The owners didn't give in, they sent their mare to a different trainer, a male, and now they show and trail ride this mare without a problem. BTW- this mare was a driving horse prior.

Good Luck :)

[Ariesgrl131]

I can't find a trainer :(

[Stellaluna]

The Amish are the experts on driving and road safety, but perhaps you don't have a whole lot of them in Las Vegas. :)

My dad bought a mare last year from the Amish and she wasn't trained to ride. She was, however, a breeze to train to ride.

If you think your horse will be a suitable driving candidate, why not? If you're not experienced with driving and don't have anyone local to teach you, read up on it. You can learn a lot from several "learning to drive" books that are out there. If you're like me, once you drive a horse, you're hooked. I can't wait to start training Luna!

[WP~Paint]

Here is what I was going to do with my horse to teach him to eventually pull a cart...My friend is not always home and I don't have the extra cash right now to pay her to teach him, and I want to do it on my own:D...I am going to start him out with just a caveson, surgincle, and 2 lunge lines...start him learning that I am behind him and what we are doing. I am going to start in the round pen, and use things to get him to step over. I have already tried, only had a lunge line and a longer lead line...he went over some poles just fine. I will then move to the arena and make more obstacles. Then I plan on taking him out into the fields. When I feel he is listening to my voice and contact, I want to put like a pallet behind him and then gradually add the weight of a hay bale or something. I plan to work slowly up to it all, and I have to because I don't have much cash to buy the whole harness.

Does this sound like a good plan to you guys who do this already?

[IrisGreen]

You have the right idea but you WILL need a harness to pull anything. The harness distributes the weight across the chest or shoulders for the horse to pull. You can't just hook it up to a surcingle or it will pull the surcingle back around the horses flanks and you will have a major bucking fit!

Start out with the teaching of basic commands that she will need to know. Whoa being the most important. Driving horses need to be responsive to voice commands because you want to keep there mouths light and not pull on them unless you have too.

So, work on these things first:

Rope desensitizing:
She needs to be fine with ropes on her, around her and touching her legs. Here is a video of a rope turning exercise you can do to make sure she is fine being pulled on and knows how to move off pressure. She will need to be able to move off the line so when you go to ground drive her and make her turn she doesn't freak out and knows how to stay between the lines. This will help her not spook when harnessed and between the tugs or traces.

In this video Muffin knew what I was asking the first time so he turned before I even really got to pulling. The second turn is what you want. He moved his back end off the pressure calmly and was not bothered by the rope being behind his legs. He was almost 2 in this video.

YouTube - Rope turning

Cues:
Whoa being the most important. The best way that I have found to make them pay attention to your voice commands it this.. Walk behind her while ground driving in a straight line, say whoa, then after she takes another step and doesn't whoa stop fallowing behind her and hold the lines. She will walk into the end of the lines because you are no longer walking with her. Plus, you are stopped so you can brace yourself for when she hits the end of the lines if you think she might try to walk through the bit. Once she stops release the tension and let her stand there, say "stand". Repeat. Before you know it she will respond as soon as you say whoa because she knows if she keeps walking she is going to hit the end of the lines. This will get her listening to your voice and not depending on being pulled on all the time.

Practice ground driving as much as you want but don't make her pull anything with out a proper harness on her. If you want to get her used to noises behind her then YOU hold something and drag it behind you while ground driving her so she gets used to the noise but don't hook it to her.

Driving training is more expensive then saddle training because of the equipment involved, harness ($150 to $1,000), stone boat (can be a pallet or a real one built with a kick pannel on the front and skids $300), training cart (pioneer brand $1,000 or a home built 2 wheeled cart), and hours and hours of desensitizing and making them obedient to voice commands. But, the rewards are you can take family and friends for a nice drive around the neighborhood and they don't even have to know how to ride a horse!:)

You will also need to work with her on having things on her back. Saddle, patio cushion, ropes, and things so she is not spooky with stuff on her, anything you can think of to sack her out with.

Once she is ground driving, moving off pressure, listening to commands and not spooky about a saddle or ropes being tossed over her back she is ready to get used to a harness. Then it starts all over again ground driving in the harness and her getting used to all the straps moving and bumping her.

You want to do all you can to get her ready before you hook her up to anything. Baby steps because if you don't prepare her there are huge risk you take and horses get hurt. Not saying you would do this but I know plenty of people that have and though the horse would be fine and got in to a bad wreck because they didn't take the time to prepare the horse properly.

Once you get your harness I can help you with the next steps.

Also, this might be a good idea. Get a driving bridle with blinders and get her used to that. Ground driving in an open bridle where they can see you is fine but they will act differently when you put blinders on them. They will want to turn around and face you and even act like they don't know what they are doing. They really have to focus on your voice and not spook at what they can't behind them. They learn to listen with out having to look behind them.

[HaveFaith]

Several of the 60something year old farmers we ride with break their horses and mules to pull wagons before they ride them. They say they will know how to ride and not be any trouble after they can pull/drive. My husband hooked his Tenn. Walker up to their wagons and he pulled like an OX. Even calmed him down some.

[IrisGreen]

Here is a video of Muffin with his harness on. I have sacked him out with all kinds of stuff so he was good about us putting it on him. He is fine walking in it but when I ask him to trot he is hesitant and doesn't know what the harness is going to do. So, I took it easy with him and let him get used to it. The collar on him is way to big (I ordered it too big on accident) but I have a new one that fits him great.

YouTube - Muffins First Harness

This is a collared harness but you can get a breast style harness. The one Muffin has on uses the collar around his neck to rest on his shoulders and that is what he will pull with. On breast style harness's they use a breast collar across the horses chest to pull against. There less expensive to buy and less straps to deal with then a collared harness. I prefer the collared harnesses and like the look of them but the breast style are easier to use for someone new to driving and work just as good.

You can pick up a breast style harness for under $200 but you wont find a decent collared harness for under $350, plus the collar is extra most of the time. I went with a full beta harness and all stainless steel so nothing will rot or rust. But, I payed much more for it but I wanted a harness that would last and I wouldn't have to oil.

Muffin is sacked out better then most of the horses around my neighborhood just due to his harness training and me teaching him to stay calm. His saddle training will be a breeze when we get to that point and he will already know how to work in a bit and give to pressure.

I think training a horse to drive before riding is a great idea and makes them calmer and obedient horses that are much easier to saddle train. Plus, I like the idea you get two horses in one, a driving and riding horse. :)

[FlitterBug]

Yes, you can teach your horse to drive without riding her. I prefer teaching my horses to ground drive before getting on their backs. I am somewhat confused by the trainer who was supposed to train her, isn't that why you send them to a trainer? So they learn not to freak out when someone gets on their back?

Before a horse can be ridden, they must be ready physically and emotionally in order to make it a smooth process. I have a QH filly who has been emotionally ready to ride, but had to wait for the physical part to catch up. From the sounds of it, you may have the opposite situation.

Driving would definately benefit your horse if done properly, as would other methods.

[cowpuncher]

THet majority of work horses are never ridden and spend their whole working lives being driven. If your trainer couldn't get on our Shire, yu had a crappy trainer. There is no reason, outside pain, for a Shire to freak out about just about anything. I've started a lot of them, both under saddle, in harness, and both. The are, quite possibly, the easiest breed of horse to work with that I've ever worked. They are so docile. I'd say drive her if you want, but if you want to ride her, find a new trainer.