Nails, shoe stock....Borium??

[offgridgirl]

What kind of stock do you use? What type of nails?

We are using the 3/8 groove stock with EU slim nails.

My farrier and I had a discussion after the last shoeing that he would like to try the Barium(sp?) head nails and maybe heavier stock for my horse. He really doesn't do well when we get to the 8 week mark. It's just a feel thing for me and him but he gets really stumbley(sp?) and is choosy about placing his feet down on uneven ground!!

Do any of the H/J here use the 5/8th stock and borium head nails??? Pros/Cons???

What do the Farrier's prefer???

http://www.hosslogic.com/far2qu12.htm

Here is a link of the MFT newletter and the reply is listed below.

We usually shoe our horses with borium on all four feet. We have to ride a paved road up the mountian to get to our trails and then back down to camp. I am afraid that without borium my horse will slip and risk injury. Will this be harmful to my MFT if I use borium? I am afraid of the consquences if I do not use it. Any suggestions? Linda

ANSWER:
Linda,
Borium is applied on the toe and heel areas, usually in clumps. The things that I have against borium applied in this manner are:
1) They are not conducive to gaiting as they stop ANY movement of the foot from the moment of touching down.
2) With the build up of material on the toes the breakover timing is changed, which also could effect the ability to gait.
3) The lack of foot movement can cause undue torsion on knees and hocks causing joint damage.
4) If they step on your foot it really HURTS as you can't jerk it out from under them as you can with keg shoes.
My solution to your problem is this. Have your farrier use borium headed nails. They are made by Capewell Co. I have used them on my mare for parades and feel that they worked ok off the pavement. I used two nails to the side of each shoe. (used regular nails in the other nail holes) The borium headed nails do not effect breakover as they are not on the toe. They tend to allow some movement on dirt and gravel, etc. I feel that these nails are a good replacement for borium treated shoes.
Bob

[Joey A]

What size feet does he have, and what's the purpose for the borium?

[offgridgirl]

He has 13" to 13 1/4" shoes on all feet.

I should also add that he had borium nuggets on his rear shoes when I got him. We decided not to continue that as I did a lot of roads and my farrier advised against it for the health of the horses' legs.

I want to give him better grip on trails for longer period b/w shoeing and my farrier thought that the borium head nails would last longer.

There is a huge difference when he has the nail head to grip with. The nail heads slowly wear down as I ride and especially when I do a lot of rock and/or hard packed dirt/icy roads. He becomes less agile when he can't grip and I ask for a collected canter or proper Fox trot.

[rocknK]

How's about shoeing at 6-7 weeks???? I used borium nails when going up into the Sierras, lots of granite. Seems to give us a little more "stick" & a little less "slip".

[Joey A]

OK, that's about a 00. 3/8" x 3/4" is about the biggest you really want to go for that small a foot. By "groove stock" I'm assuming you mean concave barstock?

There are 2 products that are sold as "borium". Actual borium comes as a fine powder in a metallic tube, then there is "Drill Tec" that is small pieces of carbide (chips off of old drill bits) mixed in a brass base.

Borium works great for adding traction on slick surfaces, but changes the interaction in "dirt" very little and does little to "torque" the leg.

Drill Tech is comes in a fine and a coarse. The fine product also has little interaction in "dirt" but has a little more grab on pavement. The coarse is a little more agressive, but well suited to larger horses. Drill Tek is often mis-used and GOBBED on a shoe, all you really need is just a couple spots about the size of a dime in the toe and one on each heel. Anything more than that is too much for normal use, but may be needed on ice, etc.. Steve uses Drill Tek a lot, in fact I think the "Belgina Shoeing" he posted a few days ago had Drill Tek on it.

It's not as simple as saying one has more, or one has less. It all varies depending on conditions. I don't carry the nails because I can accomplish the same thing with Drill Tec depending on how I apply it, and the shoes will last longer. At the same time, if your farrier is concerned about leg problems, to be honest, ANY change in traction is going to add strain to your horses legs.

IMO actual "borium" on a 3/4 fullered shoe would be best for your chosen application, but it does require an oxy/ace torch to apply it. If you're using concave, then I'd use a little Drill Tek in the crease, with not more than about 1/8" sticking out, and that can be done in a forge w/o a torch. BUT, IIRC you had posted a pic of your horses shoe when he pulled it, and he has rocker toed shoes right? If that's the case, the toe is up off the ground and borium or drill tek isn't going to do much on the shoe if it's not on the ground. So I'd change shoeing methodologies and set the shoe back to achieve the same mechanics without losing any ground surface area.

Even with all that said, he would really only have problems with traction devices if he wrings his hocks and twists his feet while he's moving. If that's the case, I'd avoid the nails as they're a lot less forgiving. Who's your farrier up there?

[offgridgirl]

Yes Concave stock.
Yes, he has rocker toes on the front not on the back which is where I wanted to try the borium nails or the Drill tec.
Dallas Stewart is my farrier.http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p234/offgridgirl/2009%20ESS%20Ride/essDallas.jpg

The trails here are mostly roots, stones and some soft dirt. Even the roads here are Hard Packed dirt with little bits on stone on top and mixed in. I will get a picture of his shoes today. It has been about a week since they were done.

[westmanfarrier]

I'm with Rockn. Shorten the schedule. The stumbling can have more to do with the length and resulting leverage. Keep on top of it before the length causes issues by going 6 weeks instead of 8. I have horses as short as 4 weeks.

As for traction, you might compromise and use a borium tipped nail. Doesn't last as long as properly applied borium to the shoe, but might be a good, cheap compromise.

[offgridgirl]

Yes we do shorten the time when he is available. We are on an island and he only comes over when there are 5 plus horse to do for the day otherwise it's too expensive and the ferries are busy. It's a wait each way....ugh

It is on the list to try the borium nail heads. Assuming we can get them here...might be against some Canadian regulation...:)

[westmanfarrier]

I'll mail you some if you need it, or if you find yourself in WA I am not too far south.

[offgridgirl]

I'll mail you some if you need it, or if you find yourself in WA I am not too far south.
Thanks that would be great:cool:!!
Hubby should be down in a few weeks to pick-up some parts for our diesel generator. Or I will be down in Sept for a clinic.

[westmanfarrier]

Let me know. Email me through my website and I'll make sure I have some for you.

[labambagirl]

Hi Offgrid girl,

I am orginally for the island and living out east now and planning on moving back either to the island or the main land in the near future. I have a small pony for my duaghter and it has issue with its feet.ie cracked hoof right now. The pony hit a rock the wrong way. Our farrier now is doing a great job making sure she heals proprably. I came across your post and was wondering if you still us this farrier. If so would you recommond him? I'm trying to get good information and contacts before we move. I would appreicate any information from you.

Thank you,
Tami:)

[offgridgirl]

Hey and Welcome Tami!!

Yes, I would recommend him and sure I can give his name and number. He is local to Courtenay/Comox area,
Pm me with your info and I can send you his info.....